To my mind you cannot apply to too many schools. At the Graduate level there is no such thing as a 'safety' because there are many random effects describing how many applicants apply to each school. Also the process of application is a two-way discovery process. You will find things out about schools during the year you apply that you would not learn otherwise, and will be more informed in whatever choice you make. I recommend you apply to at least 10 schools. The GRE quant is too easy to ace for it to allow you to stand out, it's a shame really that engineers and future historians are tested on the same scale, but you are expected to score like an engineer and that means well into the 700's. - UC Berkeley -

This is a question of some debate. It's my firm belief that you should only apply to those schools where you think you could tolerate living and working for 5+ stressful years of your life. Ask current grad students what it's like to be at a particular school. I'm a big fan of doing a LOT of upfront research - it helps you figure out the few schools where you would really fit and do well, and as such you can write a better personal statement, etc. to sell yourself. I'm not a fan of sending out a zillion apps - hypothetically, if you were only to get into one school that you know you'd be completely miserable at (it's too cold, concentrating in econometrics and you're an econ history person, etc., etc.), do you really think you should go?? If you won't be happy there, you might as well admit that now and save yourself the effort of the application and the money of the fee. That's my opinion anyway.

I applied to 5 - 3 that I knew I'd be comfortable with, 1 I was a little less sure of, but in the same ballpark of the ranking, and 1 reach school. I got into all but the reach school. The other crucial key is how much funding you'll get from each school. Don't even think of going to a school without funding - it's ridiculous with the amount of funding that does exist in many different places. This is a job, remember?? - Duke

You´ve described a top student in a top university. In this case, you should apply to MIT, Harvard, Princeton and Stanford, plus Chicago, Berkeley and Penn as safety schools. Chicago might surprise you as a safety school, but it is pretty easy to get in (hard thing is getting out). - Princeton -

Yes, I would send an application to a safety school (that is, if you really want to complete a PhD regardless of where) because you never know how strong the pool of applicants is in any given year. - Johns Hopkins U. -

I applied to 7 universities, I apply to those I liked their programs the most.....thats crucial, also you have to take into account location, weather, etc etc etc.....it is going to be "home" for the next five years, so you better like it......There is no such thing as a safety school, I was accepted by Chicago and rejected by Duke....they will detect whether you are just giving it a try instead of a serious try if for example you apply to 5 top ten and 5 from 30th rankings...... - U.Chicago -

Advice: never choose the school based on a particular faculty member - they move all too frequently between the schools. - UC Berkeley -

I suggest looking at the academics at the particular institution you are interested in. It really helps when you have an idea on what are you want to work on. I had a GPA above 3.5, had 700+ in Quan, Analytical and Verbal, and I also took the Subject test in Economics. I also received my fair share of rejections, most notably UC Berkeley. I suggest applying to the first tier schools, ie, the top 20 schools. The reason isn't simply the reputation, but rather the rigorousness of the program. I learn in my program what my friends at the University of Washington or Georgetown do not cover in detail. I'm sure the instructors at UW are every bit as good as the ones at UM, but the program is somehow less mathematically rigorous. As you no doubt know, mathematical competence is very necessary in the current study of economics. The more mathematically adept you are, the more comfortable you will be reading journal articles and your textbooks. If you are not constrained by the application costs, then by all means apply to a safety-net school, but decide carefully before you accept its offer. There are numerous variables you have to consider; do you want to teach after graduation, do you want to work in the private sector or in policy. If you want to stay in academia, I strongly urge you to go to the highest ranked school you can get into. - U.Michigan -

I applied to 10 schools and was admitted to 6. Of these 10, I would say that 3 were in the so-called top 10 schools. 4 were ranked between 11-30. The remaining 3 were in the 31-50 tiers. I was admitted to 1 of the top 10 schools, 2 of the 11-30 schools and all 3 of the 31-50 schools. I think this mix is indicative of many people who come to grad school. I chose the "safety" applications (31-50) almost entirely based on geographical considerations and maybe the presence of 1 interesting professor. The other schools were somewhat more difficult to choose, but I remember looking for departments with several faculty in fields that interested me at the time. Obviously the top 4 or 5 schools in the country have lots of good professors in all fields. As you move down the list, schools begin to specialize in a few fields. e.g. Wisconsin is dominated by micro theorists, trade theorists and some empirical guys in public and macro, with a smattering of good Profs in a few other fields. I remember simply going through the list of the top 20 schools and eliminating the schools who didn't have professors who I thought were doing work that interested me. Other good schools, like Columbia, I eliminated because the faculty was dominated by older economists who were past their prime. I eliminated Minnesota, because I heard that they required more math than what I had at the time. Basically I tried to optimize my applications based on whatever information I could acquire. More choices are better. It may cost a little more in the short-term (application costs), but you want to have more than one choice. - U.Wisconsin, Madison -

in my case, i applied to 8 schools : harvard, princeton, chicago, yale, nortwestern, penn, columbia and san diego. i didnt apply to MIT and west schools. i didnt apply to western schools cuz i am from europe and it was too far away and tickets are much more expensive. now i think it is silly but that was my point of view then. i didnt apply to MIT because i am a neoclassic by nature and cannot believe what these people defend. i think i wouldnt have got in anyway, so i didnt lose money there. my advice is to apply to as many schools as possible but also looking at the physical place, since a phD is long and you dont want to get stuck for 5 years somewhere that you dont like. as everything in economics, there is a trade-off between quality of life and economics excellence, your preferences and ambitions determine the point where MRS=MRT. - U.Chicago -

Even the best students can be rejected by top schools for idiosyncratic reasons, so it makes sense for pretty much everyone to apply to a large number of programs. I applied to 14, and I'm glad I did. The additional effort and expense of applying to a few extra schools is not very large relative to the insurance it buys you. - UCLA -

I Think applying to more than 10 schools is a waste of money. If you want to apply to 10, say, I would pick seven schools ranked between 8 and 20, 2 top schools and 1 safety (don't go too low). In picking schools, you should try to match your research interests with the strengths of the school. Relevant information about the school are: how many (active...look at publication list) faculty does the school have in your area, how many PhD's did recently write a thesis in your area. Also, check whether any of the faculty is really well known and you could work with (crucial for the job market, because those guys will open doors to good tenure-track positions). This being said, rankings are sometimes not very revealing because they don't tell you how good a school may be for you and your research interests. Aside from the research interests, you should look into financial aid. Don't be afraid to call up their grad program and ask them whether, given your results and credentials, you are likely to receive aid. Then, I think it is absolutely important to pick a school because you like it in general, because it is in a nice city etc. For example, I picked Virginia even though I could have gone to Minnesota. Minnesota is much higher ranked but I had already lived in the Midwest for a while and wanted to live in a different place where winters don't suck as much. - U.Virginia -

I personally applied to 8, and I think that was a good number, though as it turns out, I could have applied to a lot fewer! I believe that great consultation with one's undergraduate advisor (if available) is one of the best ways to get an idea of how qualified one is. Hopefully, that person will be honest in assessing the student's abilities to make good recommendations. However, I'm not sure that safety schools are a good idea. Why? Presumably, one is applying to grad school with the eventual goal of an academic job, and a degree from a school that is lower down in the rankings may not do you much toward accomplishing that goal. I would recommend applying only to more highly ranked schools and then also trying to land a job offer in the work force, as a replacement to a "safety school." However, below the top 8 or 9 schools, there is sort of a swirling pool of schools who, in any given year, might be considered "top ten." Unfortunately, I must put Wisconsin in that group, but others I would consider like this would be UCLA, UCSD, Michigan, Columbia, Rochester, Minnesota, and Caltech. - U.Wisonsin, Madison -

An 800 score on quant and analytical is a good idea if one wants to get into the top schools. In particular, an 800 score on the quant is a good idea. The verbal is not important. People say that recommendation letters are the most important things for getting into econ grad school. The key is to get someone famous who the people at top schools will know and trust to write for you. A letter of rec. from an unknown person may not be very helpful even if it is very I didn't apply to a safety school because I was lucky to have good letters of rec. and I came from an Ivy league school (so I was pretty sure I'd get in), and because I thought I'd rather reapply than go to less good schools. - Harvard -

i'll tell you a little bit about my experience: i applied to begin school in fall 2000. i applied to 12 places: berkeley, brown, chicago, duke, michigan, mit, northwestern, penn, princeton, stanford, wisconsin, & yale i was admitted to brown (w/ aid), chicago (no aid), duke (aid), michigan, (no aid), and wisconsin (no aid) and waitlisted (but later turned down) at mit. i decided that i preferred chicago, and after a little haggling, got a 4-year tuition remission. i work occasionally but mainly live off of loans. i'm very happy here & learning a lot. my profs thought i'd get in more places than i actually did. i think that's the norm among the people who know you & like you enough to write you recommendations. also, i think there's a whole lot of noise in the process. there are frequently people i think should do a lot better than they do. consequently, i think it's wise to hedge your bets & include a safety school. the cost is relatively low & if you got rejected from a lot of places, you'd really really regret not putting that little extra time into filling out the application for a safety. brown & duke were safeties for me. i think i was better off being safe. i mean, if a couple admissions people were in bad moods the days that they looked at my applications, then i might've only had those two acceptances. and then i really would've appreciated having the other option. i turned out giving brown a lot more consideration than i expected to (i liked it better than michigan), but in the end i fell in love w/ chicago & decided to go there against my professors' advice. on the northwestern application my year, they said that, as a general rule, they accept individuals at the 90th percentile in quant & analytic, and they give aid to individuals at the 95th percentile. i was at the 95th percentile in quant & the 99th in analytic and they did not accept me. i think gres are really important, though. way more important than they should be. - U.Chicago -

A person with outstanding letters of rec from well know profs need only apply to about 6-8 of the top 15 schools. Look at the Profs' research at each school to make sure they are in line with personal interests. A "safety" level school should be considered besides the fact that it's a probable admit, but more so because funding is more likely. - U.Wisconsin, Madison -

I applied to 5 schools and, in hindsight; I probably would apply to more. To be honest, the number of schools you should apply to depends a bit on what type of schools you are looking at...had I sent out four more applications to places like Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, etc. I wouldn't have given myself four more possibilities to consider, I would've given myself four more rejection letters. Getting into the best possible school is one thing, but finding a good place where you might be able to get funding and have a decent chance of "making it through" is more important, in my opinion. I graduated from a respected liberal arts college with a 3.8, a double major in econ and political science, decent gre scores (although not great), and a fair amount of upper level math...I thought I would get into more schools than I did so show some caution in choosing places. - U.Virginia -

You should always apply to some top schools to take care of the "what if I had applied to..." clause. You should visit schools, so you kind of take care of the grass is greener on the other side syndrome. - Johns Hopkins U. -

As many as possible. At least 10, including most of the schools ranked in the top 10. It's not worth getting a Ph.D. in econ unless you go to a school in the top 15. It's hard to find a decent job otherwise. Acceptance is very random -- apply to many places and play the one in three rule. There's no such thing as a safety school. Places below your level won't necessarily accept you. - Yale -

Think quality and not quantity. These days, the job market for academic economists is excruciatingly competitive. If you do not hold a degree from a top 20 Ph.D. granting institution it is unlikely you will succeed in finding an academic job. Take a look at any university's econ department faculty listing. For example, as an undergraduate I attended the University of Massachusetts. If you look at the faculty listing there you will find that a majority f the prof's. come from places like Harvard, Stanford, Yale, Princeton, Chicago, etc... Keep in mind, as well, that this is the faculty listing at a state university! In my opinion one should apply to every school in the top 20 and then attend the highest ranked one. Even if you are accepted at a lower university with a large funding package, I would be quite wary of accepting it. You need to be very careful about attending any institution that is really excited about adding you to its student body. If your aspirations do not include finding a job as a professor at a decent academic institution then you might consider a lower ranked place. You should keep in mind, however, that opportunities outside academia are mainly limited to governmental and quasi-governmental bodies such as the federal reserve banks, IMF and World Bank and the competition for these jobs is also very tough. - PENN -

Whether or not two schools of equal quality will accept and fund you is going to be correlated but not perfectly correlated. That is to say, they're looking for the same things, but there are elements of randomness (where in the pile your application sits, what the director of graduate studies had for lunch, whether the "committee" has heard of your school etc.) What I mean to say is that is that even if you're indifferent between going to Princeton and going to MIT you should apply to both. But there are diminishing returns. If 9 of the top 10 schools reject me it's extremely likely that the 10th school rejects me as well. And obviously it costs time and money to apply to the 10th school. So don't. Where to apply? You can probably get some guidance on that from your professors; you'll also get some guidance from the various economics departments' web pages. They usually say a word or two about what 'kind of student' they are looking for. But much depends on YOUR interests. For each program you're considering, check out the faculty list or even the graduate course list if that's on the web. Different programs are good at different things. Some schools focus quite narrowly on the "fields" they do best (e.g. Labor, Finance and Micro Theory, in the case of school X), and if YOUR interest is International Trade then you should not apply to, and definitely not attend, the program at school X. You'd only be frustrated there. -U.North Carolina-

my only advice: take lots and lots and lots and lots of math. - Cornell -

I started off as a major and ended up double majoring in and econ, but by the time I'd decided I was going to go on in econ, it was too late to really get myself in the position I needed to be. My first advice would be to make sure you've had a lot of math. You can get by without it, but it will make everything easier, and also makes your application look better.

Coming out of undergrad I definitely didn't apply to enough schools. I applied to 5, chosen basically based on geography to stay close to my girlfriend who still had a year of undergrad to go. As it turned out, I didn't get into any of them. So, I decided to go get a masters and try again. This isn't a bad idea if you don't get into somewhere good initially. I went into a one-year terminal masters program that basically built a set of tools and served essentially as a prep school for grad school. If you end up having to go this route, which I'm sure you won't, Miami of Ohio and Delaware have two of the best terminal masters programs in the US, and most of the time you can get an assistantship which covers tuition and a stipend.

So, anyway, the next year I applied again, this time to 10 schools and got in 6 of them. So in answer to your question about how I distinguished myself, I didn't do a very good job the first time, and despite having excellent GRE's and a decent GPA, I didn't get in anywhere. I had a publication in a top journal even, but that didn't seem to matter much since it wasn't econ. Then, the next time, getting the masters showed I was serious, and better qualified, and so I think that is what got me in ultimately. It meant I had research experience doing a masters thesis, as well as being a research assistant, etc. All in all, the masters route isn't the end of the world if you end up having to go that way...it also makes the first year a little easier.

Another thing to remember in applying is that sometimes you may get rejected for reasons beyond your control. Schools could be in a budget crisis, or get way more applications than usual, or other reasons along these lines, and it means that no matter how qualified you are, you should be prepared for possibly not getting in, and have as wide a scope of choices as possible. In the case of our class at Wisconsin, they had many more people accept their offer than usual, and our class ended up being 56 instead of the 30 or so it usually is. That means that the class that follows us had to be smaller, for financial reasons as well as sheer office space issues. That is the kind of random event that can mean you get unlucky due to strange circumstances.

Of course the other big concern in choosing a school is the money. There's a chance you'll get into a top choice but not get any financial aid, and you may have an offer for a $20,000 stipend + tuition at a lower choice school. (this was my situation) In the end, you have to decide whether it's worth accumulating debt now and living in poverty for a while in exchange for better opportunities later. Most places though, once you make it through the first year, you'll receive support in later years, so you just have to suck it up for a little while.

Another thing to keep in mind is your future area of specialization. If you're unsure about what you like best (and most undergrad classes don't really give you a good idea of what these areas are really like, particularly in macro) then you want to make sure you choose a school that has a big department, and is consistently strong in a lot of areas. If you're absolutely sure you want to do applied micro, or trade, or metrics, or theory or whatever, then you want to make sure your school is especially strong in this area, but keep in mind that most people change their mind, and you don't want to get stuck at a school that is really only good in one or two areas that you might end up hating. Also along these lines, it's good if a school has several professors working in your area so that if you don't get along with one particularly well you aren't stuck with no one to work with. -U.Wisconsin, Madison -

Apply to a range of universities: some top, some middle, and one or two safety schools. Also, make sure the university's ideas and research interests match yours. - Yale -

I think one should apply at least to eight. How to decide? Only you can know really, if you have suicidal tendencies then why not applying to the very top if your scores are good, jobs are almost assured after that. If you already have an idea of which field you like the best, then go to the university that is the best in that field, that has the best professors in the area, etc. (internet- U-home pages are a must). Also, write to faculty members, they are so friendly to students and will usually give any information you need from that school. Sure you should always have a safety school application. - Vanderbilt -

I would say that you should apply to about five graduate schools, depending on how much money you have for the application fees (which can be quite exorbitant). If you're short on cash, remember that many non-US institutions (including Oxford and Cambridge) do not have application fees. In terms of choosing between schools, I would recommend applying to those schools at which there are faculty members whose research interests closely match your own. Most economics faculties specialize in a few particular areas of economics, so you need to take this into account. Always apply to a back-up school. - Yale -

This is an e-mail from a student who did not finish his Phd

I am a previous PhD student at Vanderbilt University. I stress previous, since I will be leaving in December with a master's degree and not a PhD. I am replying to your email since I think the questions you pose are not only insightful to your future, but also to help you avoid the pitfalls I faced over the past three years. Let me also state that I am leaving in good standing. That is, I am not leaving due to failing courses, prelims or the like; rather I am leaving because I lacked the foresight that you are showing.

(1a) How many graduate schools you should apply to?

Answer: At least one. This is a mock joke; you have to apply to a school in order to be accepted. There is no set number, you should pick a university to attend based on:

• (A) Well developed curriculum of your area of interest
• (B) Your personal visit to the institution
• (C) Reputation
• (D) Personal Acceptance Possibility /Completion Record
• (E) Funding
• (F) Social Life
• (G) Desire for Culture

These are ordered in my preference order.

(A) This is the most important aspect over everything else. If you are interested in say Environmental Economics, make sure the department you are applying to actually has classes offered every year (or every other year), students are actively researching (with the help from faculty of course) in that field, and there is a genuine interest in the department for that field. DO NOT take the word of web pages, course catalogs, word of mouth and the like. You must actually meet with people that have taken the courses and are doing the research in that field to confirm that what they say, and what they are doing, are one and the same. Just because a website, a DGS (director of graduate studies), or faculty member says that field you are interested in is a possibility does not mean you will have ample resources to do so. Obtaining a PhD is a long hard process; you do not want to cripple yourself by going to an institution that is going to make your life harder by not having the resources you need to be successful.

This is where I failed. Vanderbilt had stated that Environmental Economic was actively taught; they even had a student who graduated with an environmental flavor the year before I came. What I did not know, was that all the courses they had cited in the catalog had not been taught in 4 years, the student's advisor was in another department (Business), and the people on his committee were too busy to be of any help to progress a students' knowledge.

(B) Do not apply (or at least accept to go) to a school that you do not visit. Life as a PhD student is a hard long one, make sure you enjoy your surrounding. Further, you must get to know the students, the faculty, and the atmosphere before you actually are a student. (BTW, I did not fail this step). Remember one thing: the larger the program, the better. Why? The larger the program, the more possibility of fields (remember, field courses are small, but they still need bodies to fill the chairs!).

(C) Reputation I set as a high requirement… Why? You must be able to get a good paying job after you are done. If one is interested in academia (i.e. becoming a professor) this does not become as high as a factor, but realize that someone who comes from a 40th ranked school is not as actively sought after as one that comes from a top 15 one, even if that student from the 40th ranked school is of better quality. There are always exceptions, but take this as the norm, and not the exception.

(D) If you want to go to a university right after undergraduate, apply to the schools you are almost sure you will get accepted into. Apply to one that you hope to go to. Remember this; there is always next year. A PhD is a serious investment, you would not buy busted down rust-bucket of a car if you had the money to buy a brand new luxury car would you? Time is something all of us have, get into the best program that is right for you; even if it means you miss the opportunity the first go-around. Do not apply to a program just because you think you can be accepted into it, this is non-sense. Further, find out how many students who started actually finished the program. Find out how long it takes the average student to compete a PhD. Take this into consideration when applying, and while attending, any program.

(E) A PhD program, if unfunded can be a burdensome process. Even if funded, realize that you will be making peanuts compared with what you could be doing in the job-market. It is possible to pick up funding after you have been in the program (I was given a full teaching stipend after the first semester), but realize that things are tight. If one is going from Undergrad training straight to gradate studies, they should stop and think about what they are giving up. While they are going for that PhD their friends will be marrying, buying homes, and "growing up". All the while that grad student will have very little time to go out and date, have little money for rent, and overall be living a life that they are unaccustomed with. A doctorate program is like drinking from a fire-hydrant (old saying I read a long time ago about MIT undergrad work), so be prepared for the sacrifices you must take in this process beforehand.

(F) Social life. Make sure that when you actually have time that you actually have something to do that you enjoy. If you think Environmental is the field for you, and choose Wyoming to be your institution of choice, make sure you have something near there that you enjoy. Do not eliminate an institution based on this, rather take it into consideration.

(G) Find out what is the make-up of the graduate program before you go. I was shocked to find that I was one of only two US citizens in the entering "freshman" class. This is not really a factor, but realizes that you will most likely be surrounded by foreign citizens with very different cultures, and communication difficulties. This is not really important (unless you are prejudiced scum), but realize that you do not make it through a doctorate program alone, you WILL need help probably every day for your entire stay in the program, and these will be the people that will help you in your time of scholastic need.

0(1B) How do you come to the decision of which schools to apply to and how many of them to apply to?

See (1A). I would just like to add, how many does not count, it is the quality that you are interested in. If you do not get accepted one year, do not worry about it. Rejection is something one must learn to accept in life (do you get to date every girl you ask out, if so lucky you). Do not be in a rush to get into a doctorate school, remember nothing is ever as you imagine. Take your time and make sure what you are getting into will be enjoyable (at least in theory).

(1C) Do you send an application to a safety school (a school that you are sure you can get into without a doubt)?

See above. Submit to a "safety school" only IF that school would be enjoyable to attend (relative, remember, a PhD program is about as enjoyable as getting your teeth pulled at times, joking).

(2A) How do you believe you set yourself apart in the application process?

I was a math undergrad, and a damn good one at that. I had very little training in econ (only 2 courses as an undergrad), but I excelled as a student before as an undergrad. One thing every student should know about a economics doctorate is it is not only training in economics, but in mathematics. In fact, a lot of the concepts that were taught in undergrad course are not even mentioned in graduate programs. Why? It is assumed that the grad student will do the necessary research themselves for course content. Rather, the student is bombarded with mathematic procedures to SOLVE the problems in question. A student finds out real fast that they must not only learn what is being taught in the class (the math and theory), but also must figure out for themselves what it all actually means (because THAT is what they are tested on!).

(2B) Did you spend hours upon hours writing you statement of purpose?

No, I knew what I wanted to do and quite frankly, wrote it in about 4 hours. I proof-read it for days on end after that (to make sure I was conveying what I meant in a professional manner), but the main body was done the first day. Be truthful, and precise what you plan to do. If you don't match with what they think what their students should be, then you are applying to the wrong school anyhow.

(2C) Was your undergraduate work experience crucial to your acceptance into a competitive university?

Undoubtedly. As I said, this is training in math. My first year I struggled with the economics theory (which other students helped me), but the math was easier for me compared with the other students (which I helped them with).

(2D) How about research experience?

I had a little experience as an undergrad as a RA (research assistant). I do not believe this was a major factor though. It helps, but is will not sway an acceptance committee negatively. If you have extensive research experience though, this will help a bunch.

(3) If you could give any advice to an undergraduate student of economics about the process of being accepted to graduate school, what would you say?

Wow, I've already said a mouthful, haven't I? I only have three things to add:

(A) When you visit a school, do not take negative comments about the program as the tell-all of the program. Wherever you go, you will suffer (at least a little). Rather, take it as truthfulness on the part of the student or faculty member. One thing NOT to take lightly though are comments about TA'ships (Being a teaching assistant). If this is the funding you will be receiving, realize this is a huge drain on your time and patience. If you hear comments lie "they work us to death", "they treat us like dirt", "they have no support for TA's, you are on your own", and you need the funding in the form as TA'ship; stay away at this institution at all costs!

(B) Do not ever forget why you joined a doctorate program in the first place. Go after it with a fiery-passion. The more happy you are, where you are, what you are doing, the faster you will complete this hurdle and start to face newer and better ones to come.

(C) A lot of people who start a PhD program do not complete it. I think this due to a lack of preparation; whether it be in the classroom or actually finding a good match with what they expect of a doctoral program. My first year we lost half our entering class to the former, and since have lost another quarter (including myself) due to the latter. Do your research, be prepared, and try to have a good time in the process. - Vanderbilt -

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